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I will give you the
relevant (about 30) e-mail adresses involved in=
this
debate once the time is right.
As usual, read from=
the
bottom up, all participants on the e-mail are South African Black youth
-----Original Messa=
ge-----
From: Tefo
Sent:=
02 December 2005 04:24 PM
To: TM
Cc: A whole lot of people…
Subject:<=
/b> RE: FW: Interesting read...
Kwena! (kapa =
ke tlhapi?)
Cultures =
are
brands/organizations.
They come=
, they
go.
Purpose o=
f language
is to express a concept/idea/feeling so other humans can understand and/or
agree with you i.e. to influence others.
Also, it =
is my
humble opinion that English has developed so much because its custodians
(whoever they are) are quick to embrace other cultures and take the (steal?)
the good out of them and progress their own culture/language (simple exampl=
e,
Tea and Ceylon/Sri Lanka/India).
Unfortuna=
tely
human languages do a poor job of expressing one's concepts/ideas/feelings. =
Mathemati=
cs is
the closest you get to a pure language, little room for ambiguity. <=
span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"'>
That's my=
2 cents
worth=
-----Original Messa=
ge-----
From: TM
Sent:=
02 December 2005 04:13 PM
To: SM; Tefo
Cc: A whole lot of people=
Subject:<=
/b> RE: FW: Interesting read...
Having re=
ad your
argument SM it is crystal clear that words, (English words, that is) come at
great ease to you. There is no doubt that you have thought about this subje=
ct
at some depth. I know that you have simplified your argument significantly =
for
our benefit and your argument makes a lot of sense. Having a single medium =
of
communication that everyone understands will make for effective communicati=
on
and probably facilitate language development as well. There are just two
points, however, that compel me to disagree with you completely.
Firstly, =
language
is too often the primary identifier of cultures and ethnicity. Far too many
cultures are strongly bound by the language that identifies them. People are
proud and possessive of their language. Le nna =
kele tjena ke
motlotlo haholo ha =
kele Mosotho wa mme ya
anang phoofolo ya metsing le ntate
ya anang phoofolo a busang thota. Sekgowa sena le ha kesetseba hofeta beng ba
sona, nkeke ka tsoha ke lebetse
puo ya Mme hohang! It is my opinion that the benefits of having a
single medium just do not justify the means ( i.e. the
sacrifice of other languages).
Secondly,=
your
appropriation theory is a very interesting one, however, the example you us=
ed
about black Americans is not a particularly good one. Exactly what is the
"black culture" that has emerged that you are referring to? What
identifies that "culture"? Is it the baggy jeans that are often s=
een
in rap music videos? Is there music that identifies this "culture"=
;?
Do Indian descents form part of this "culture"? Do Hispanics (who
descend from
Before I =
close I
would like to mention that you have not really commented on the initial
question that was posed regarding why there exists a tendency to undermine
efforts of black South Africans trying to speak English while Afrikaaner attempts at African languages are praised.=
If
you were born Afrikaaner (en ek
meen 'n regte boer), would you still sub=
scribe
to your single medium theory if the de facto and de ju=
re
language happened to be TshiVenda?
In his 19=
58
novel, Things Fall Apart, Chinua Achebe
wrote "A culture without the ability to change, is but without the mea=
ns
of its own preservation". I definitely agree that cultures should evol=
ve
for the benefit of the general societies in which they exist. However…=
; as
much as I recognize the merits of you single medium of communication argume=
nt,
I do not subscribe to the one language fits all school of thought. <=
span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"'>
TM=
From:=
SM
Sent:=
Friday, December 02, 2005 10:37 AM
To: Tefo
Cc: A whole lot of
people…
Subject:<=
/b> Re: FW: Interesting read...
The lingua franca debate is an
interesting one, I studied the subject and
debated it with all my friends for years.
There is a theory of appropriation,
where the slaves have developed their on language out of English, this is prevalent in the Caribbean, but more so
within the Indian population of
At the heart of the appropriation =
theory
is that you don't seek to reverse your circumstances but you start to take
control of them, you add purpose to your actions e.g=
span>
black American they are English speaking but a black culture has emerge wit=
h no
doubt. In the interest of African nationalism English is the most appropria=
te
language to use . The
In conclusion let us learn from our
children who are now exposed to unity( all racial groups and ethnic groupin=
gs
in one school) as oppose to separation due to group areas Act, that o=
ur
parents were subjected to. The negative results of that is that though the =
ANC
is a nationalist organisation, we know who domi=
nates
it and why.
lastly<=
/span> have you ever wonder how language develops, im=
agine
a bushman meeting with an Eskimo, their environments are different, its is
called a convention people agree on the signifier and the signified and bet=
ween
them they got a word that id got the same meaning.
Is failing to listen to reason ins=
tead
getting preoccupied with the technicalities of the lang=
uage ,
the accent the choose of words, France Fanon has written a lot about this
subject mind you France wrote in French and is regarded as the founder of b=
lack
consciousness in the African continent, imagine if we confined ourselves to
South Africa we will be thinking in terms of the country not the continent.=
Mayibuye iAfrica, lets us r=
emove
the artificial boundaries
In Senyanja=
span>
which is spoken in
The ultimate goal is to remove lan=
guage
as measure of intelligence because all languages are a fragment of some
knowledge, If knowledge is contained in one lang=
uage
there will be peace in the world.
Peace out
-----Original
Message-----
From: NP
Sent: 30 November 2005 10:01 AM
To: A whole lot of people
Subject: Interesting read...
NO
APOLOGY FOR ANY OFFENCE
"Why
do we laugh at a black man/black people who are struggling tospeak/write
English and not laugh at (white man) speaking appallingXhosa/Zulu/Sotho"
We all have done this, thought that boxers/soccer
players
are idiots(Nomvete, Vuyani=
Bungu) because they cannot speakgood
English.
Ever
thought about De Klerk who does not know a sing=
le
Xhosa word, He
cannot
even pronounce your name to start with.
In
the office they pronounce your name wrongly and you just smile. You<=
span
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman=
";
mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>
are
impressed when Mrs van Wyk is trying to speak
Xhosa/Zulu. In 15
yrs
she managed to learn Molo/Sawubona only...and y=
ou are
impressed by
that
sick crap. Why does it never occur to you that Mrs
Van Wyk is an
idiot,
a certified moron...who is not capable of learning one single african language" What is compelling me to be writing this email inEnglish
not
in Zulu ??????? I know all the recipients are Xhosa, Zulu or Sotho; =
span>therefore
they will be able to read and understand this email. Ha=
ving
realised that I still continue writing in
English. My excuse "I am
faster
when I write in English (Crap!) I was not born speakingEnglish.
Listen to your voice mail. It is in English and how many whites
call you compared to the blacks? Why do you have to cater forthe
10%. You do not even have a white friend yet
English.
That is pathetic.
If I
told you that I had a degree in Xhosa/Sotho you would all laughfor
you do not see why someone in his right mind would want to adegree
in Xhosa/Sotho. Yet French classes are over flowing...My sistercannot
even write isiXhosa/Sotho she detaste
the language and know one should be
learning
isiXhosa/Sotho.
Afrikaans
are preserving Stellenbosch, RAU, Tuks
( Pretoria) and all the
varsities in the Transvaal=
region....Wh=
at are
we preserving Unitra
will
be closed...UniVenda may follow suit ...Uni Zulu maybe on the
pipe
line (But we have Fort hare).. Afrikaans (7% of the SApopulation)
has 5 universities that they control. Little bit on ma=
ths=3D>
there should be 64 black varsities to level the grounds. That would<=
span
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman=
";
mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>
be a
waste I agree but this serve the purpose...
Nokia
recently introduced a phone with menus in Xhosa/Zulu/Sotho...wethink
that "it for people who cannot read English", Amaqaba.
When you
phone
Vodacom service centre you always press 1 (to be
helped in
English
press 1, Zulu press 2 (Xhosa), Sotho press 3, Afrikaans 4).Why
is it that you'd rather stammer than speak your =
own
language.
We
are all slaves... Our minds have been crippled and we will never be<=
span
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman=
";
mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>
free
until we free ourselves...
"Emancipate
your selves from mental slavery none but our selves can free
our minds"
''
Forward this to those lilly whites that you thi=
nk are
better than
yourself
and those blacks that cannot speak African languages''IF YOU
DON'T, IT WILL BE PROOF ENOUGH THAT YOU ENJOY BEING A SLAVE