From: T4
Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 6:41 AM
To: Gary S. Gevisser
Subject: FW: Interesting read...
I will give you the
relevant (about 30) e-mail adresses involved in this debate once the time is
right.
As usual, read from the
bottom up, all participants on the e-mail are South African Black youth
-----Original Message-----
From:
Sent: 02 December 2005 04:24 PM
To: TM
Cc: A whole lot of people…
Subject: RE: FW: Interesting read...
Kwena! (kapa ke
tlhapi?)
Cultures are
brands/organizations.
They come, they
go.
Purpose of
language is to express a concept/idea/feeling so other humans can understand
and/or agree with you i.e. to influence others.
Unfortunately
human languages do a poor job of expressing one's concepts/ideas/feelings.
Mathematics is the closest you get to a pure language, little room for
ambiguity.
That's my 2 cents
worth
-----Original Message-----
From: TM
Sent: 02 December 2005 04:13 PM
To: SM;
Cc: A whole lot of people
Subject: RE: FW: Interesting read...
Having read your
argument SM it is crystal clear that words, (English words, that is) come at
great ease to you. There is no doubt that you have thought about this subject
at some depth. I know that you have simplified your argument significantly for
our benefit and your argument makes a lot of sense. Having a single medium of
communication that everyone understands will make for effective communication
and probably facilitate language development as well. There are just two
points, however, that compel me to disagree with you completely.
Firstly, language
is too often the primary identifier of cultures and ethnicity. Far too many
cultures are strongly bound by the language that identifies them. People are
proud and possessive of their language. Le nna kele tjena ke motlotlo haholo ha
kele Mosotho wa mme ya
Secondly, your
appropriation theory is a very interesting one, however, the example you used
about black Americans is not a particularly good one. Exactly what is the
"black culture" that has emerged that you are referring to? What
identifies that "culture"? Is it the baggy jeans that are often seen
in rap music videos? Is there music that identifies this "culture"?
Do Indian descents form part of this "culture"? Do Hispanics (who
descend from
Before I close I
would like to mention that you have not really commented on the initial
question that was posed regarding why there exists a tendency to undermine
efforts of black South Africans trying to speak English while Afrikaaner
attempts at African languages are praised. If you were born Afrikaaner (en ek
meen 'n regte boer), would you still subscribe to your single medium theory if
the de facto and de jure language happened to be TshiVenda?
In his 1958
novel, Things Fall Apart, Chinua Achebe wrote "A culture without the
ability to change, is but without the means of its own preservation". I
definitely agree that cultures should evolve for the benefit of the general
societies in which they exist. However… as much as I recognize the merits of
you single medium of communication argument, I do not subscribe to the one
language fits all school of thought.
TM
From: SM
Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 10:37 AM
To:
Cc: A whole lot of people…
Subject: Re: FW: Interesting read...
The lingua franca debate is an
interesting one, I studied the subject and debated it with all my
friends for years.
There is a theory of appropriation,
where the slaves have developed their on language out of English, this is
prevalent in the Caribbean, but more so within the Indian population of
At the heart of the appropriation theory
is that you don't seek to reverse your circumstances but you start to take
control of them, you add purpose to your actions e.g black American they are
English speaking but a black culture has emerge with no doubt. In the interest
of African nationalism English is the most appropriate language to use . The
In conclusion let us learn from our
children who are now exposed to unity( all racial groups and ethnic groupings
in one school) as oppose to separation due to group areas Act, that our
parents were subjected to. The negative results of that is that though the ANC
is a nationalist organisation, we know who dominates it and why.
lastly have you ever wonder how language
develops, imagine a bushman meeting with an Eskimo, their environments are
different, its is called a convention people agree on the signifier and the
signified and between them they got a word that id got the same meaning.
Is failing to listen to reason instead
getting preoccupied with the technicalities of the language , the accent the
choose of words, France Fanon has written a lot about this subject mind you
France wrote in French and is regarded as the founder of black consciousness in
the African continent, imagine if we confined ourselves to South Africa we will
be thinking in terms of the country not the continent.
Mayibuye iAfrica, lets us remove the
artificial boundaries
In Senyanja which is spoken in
The ultimate goal is to remove language
as measure of intelligence because all languages are a fragment of some
knowledge, If knowledge is contained in one language there will be peace in the
world.
Peace out
-----Original
Message-----
From: NP
Sent: 30 November 2005 10:01 AM
To: A whole lot of people
Subject: Interesting read...
NO
APOLOGY FOR ANY OFFENCE
"Why
do we laugh at a black man/black people who are struggling to
speak/write
English and not laugh at (white man) speaking appalling
Xhosa/Zulu/Sotho"
We all have done this, thought that boxers/soccer
players
are idiots(Nomvete, Vuyani Bungu) because they cannot speak
good
English.
Ever
thought about De Klerk who does not know a single Xhosa word, He
cannot
even pronounce your name to start with.
In
the office they pronounce your name wrongly and you just smile. You
are impressed
when Mrs van Wyk is trying to speak Xhosa/Zulu. In 15
yrs
she m
that
sick crap. Why does it never occur to you that Mrs Van Wyk is an
idiot,
a certified moron...who is not capable of learning one single
african
language" What is compelling me to be writing this email in
English
not
in
Zulu ??????? I know all the recipients are Xhosa, Zulu or Sotho;
therefore
they will be able to read and understand this email. Having
realised
that I still continue writing in English. My excuse "I am
faster
when I write in English (Crap!) I was not born speaking
English.
Listen to your voice mail. It is in English and how many
whites
call you compared to the blacks? Why do you have to cater for
the 10%.
You do not even have a white friend yet your everything is in
English.
That is pathetic.
If I
told you that I had a degree in Xhosa/Sotho you would all laugh
for
you do not see why someone in his right mind would want to a
degree
in Xhosa/Sotho. Yet French classes are over flowing...My sister
cannot
even write isiXhosa/Sotho she detaste the language and know one should be
learning
isiXhosa/Sotho.
Afrikaans
are preserving Stellenbosch, RAU, Tuks ( Pretoria) and all
the
varsities in the Transvaal region....What are
we preserving Unitra
will
be closed...UniVenda may follow suit ...Uni Zulu maybe on the
pipe
line (But we have Fort hare).. Afrikaans (7% of the SA
population)
has 5 universities that they control. Little bit on maths
=>
there should be 64 black varsities to level the grounds. That would
be a
waste I agree but this serve the purpose...
Nokia
recently introduced a phone with menus in Xhosa/Zulu/Sotho...we
think
that "it for people who cannot read English", Amaqaba. When you
phone
Vodacom service centre you always press 1 (to be helped in
English
press 1, Zulu press 2 (Xhosa), Sotho press 3, Afrikaans 4).
Why
is it that you'd rather stammer than speak your own language.
We
are all slaves... Our minds have been crippled and we will never be
free
until we free ourselves...
"Emancipate
your selves from mental slavery none but our selves can
free
our minds"
''
Forward this to those lilly whites that you think are better than
yourself
and those blacks that cannot speak African languages''
IF YOU
DON'T, IT WILL BE PROOF ENOUGH THAT YOU ENJOY BEING A SLAVE